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It is not hard to audition these DACs in Melbourneand this is your best way to work out your own preference. Did you audition all of them in the same place with the same system? and our ears are completely different. Please specify coaxial S/PDiF or optical S/PDiF. You'd expect Audiosanctuary to understand what a gutless amp sounds like, and at least put a headphone amp in front of that DAVE, if they wanted to sell people either the DAVE or the headphones. Of the ones you mentioned I'd be most tempted by the Emm Labs DAC 2x though if you can get a used higher-end Esoteric, you should jump on it. Or arm yourself with a nice bottle of red and pay a visit to@Stereophilus. The dCS Bartok was also interesting but, based on my research, I kept coming back to Bricasti. Right now my favorite music player is from the same manufacturer of the Phasure NOS1a DAC: Stealth LPS running XXHighEnd software; again with the same caveat that I haven't heard a lot of the other highly regarded music players in my system. Firstly, that was a very impressive list of high end components you have listened to. Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator, https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/absolute-top-tier-dac-for-standard-res-redbook-cd. I can see that in an A/B comparison, many other DACs sound more impressive than DAVE/Blu2. In comparison to spdif which feels more 3D but relatively smaller sound stage, with better separation, vocals are more focused/accurate, everything sounds more evenly balanced. It matches Chord Dave and Mscaler on dynamics with slightly more bass slam. As you mentioned imaging better, incredible PRaT with MSB. You'll be shocked by how much you lose by going through a separate preamp. SoundLab A1Px's, ARC REF40, VTL Siegfired II, cj GAT2, cj ART, DCS Vivaldi 2.0 stack, Taiko Audio SGM Extreme, TechDas AF1+ , Graham Phamtom III, Sumiko Palo Santos, vdH Black Beauty, ARC Phono 3, Studer A80, Crystal Dreamline, Transparent Audio Ref XL digital and Ref Gen V power cables, CenterStage footers, Nordost Qkore6' s and QB8's! It may not display this or other websites correctly. An FPGA does not have analog output, in the Chord DACs, VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, : SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671. He liked the Mola Mola Tambaqui over these others listed below. I'll take a look, however I've heard they're on the warm side? I believe it comes down to Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites, Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. @yyzsantabarbara, your dealer quote is interesting, I suspected that the Mola Mola was that good. Since this forum is mainly USA based and we are in the UK, I have very little to gain business wise here. To me, the instrumental timbre seems more accurate with DAVE than any other DACs I've heard. Blimey my RME ADI 2 DAC looks to have better performance at a fraction of the cost, /===============================================================/, DACs, Streamers, Servers, Players, Audio Interface, Combination Audio DAC and Headphone Amplifiers. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $14,000. Over the air updates will ensure that your renderer always has the latest capabilities and ultimate convenience. You are using an out of date browser. @smodtactical I would not take price as any arbitrator of quality, especially nowadays. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris II rack on Herbie's titanium footers | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room. Would I pay extra for the second supply? very important and our preference connection is an i2S connection. And I make Best DAC Quality Ranking list. Watts is avidly not reading this in anticipation of the video version he won't watch. You might want to consider adding one of Chord's Upscalers, either Hugo M scaler , or the Blu Mk. But of course, I love window shopping and perusing top tier systems including illustrious more familiar gear like Lampi, TD, MSB, Ares Cerat, Aqua. Id imagine that upscaling refers to increasing bit-depth (like from 16 to 24 bits) which adds "vertical" resolution to the waveform in theory, improving amplitude resolution making subtle low-level detail more natural and audible (among other things) if done correctly. Still, it's the way I prefer at this stage. turns out that with the Extreme USB slightly pulls ahead of the Ethernet with the Renderer, then adding the Pro USB there is now a significant step up over the Renderer. Paired with performance increases, our modular design ethos increases flexibility for future updates and product support, guaranteeing a long-term product investment. DAVE stands for 'Digital to Analogue Veritas in Extremis', a moniker that best reflects the product's . As a matter of fact, I'd appreciate getting your impressions. Nice. The end users ears are the only ears that count. I've tried it in my system and I don't like it. A modular I/O card keeps even the discrete DAC flexible, repairable, and upgradeable. Elegant design. I've owned a PS Audio Sounds shrill on my workstation and work laptop. With a better matched preamp presence may be acceptable. Right now my favorite DACs in my system are the Pacific Microsonics Model 2 (for PCM), Phasure NOS1a (for PCM), Meridian Ultra (for MQA), and the Playback Designs MPS5 (for DSD128). The modular nature of MSB products allows you to have the bits you want and leave out those you dont, The display is a bit basic but it does what it needs to and you can see it from the other side of the room, Detail and transparency are the main features, Allows a real insight into the makeup of a track, Brings a sense of timing being bang on the money, Detail isnt a result of the higher frequencies being artificially pushed, Both PSUs are not absolutely necessary but once you remove one you want to put the other back in. You're very polite about how you describe your preferences, cmarin. Thank you for posting! Personally, I think that both these standpoints have their merits and its going to be a case of you paying your money and you taking your choice. If I got a great $20K DAC for less, I would not object. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material (in part or in full) without express and written permission from this websites author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Hifi Pig and Big Pig Media with appropriate and specific direction (link) to the original content. While were committed to long lasting products that hold their value, we realize audio systems are always evolving. This is purely speculation based on browsing the internet over the years and internalising pro/con reviews from users. All in all the Discrete DAC is beautiful looking, minimal, easy to set up (its all but plug and play if you turn both the PSUs on) and it feels like a proper bit of audio engineering. personal preference. Wherever I read I see unanimous praise for the MSB Select II. The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. The Base module has two outputs (high and low) depending on whether you are outputting to a preamplifier or directly to a power amplifier. Digital Audio Forum: DAC, Transports, Digital Processing Forum, 4x20A circuits | Audioquest Niagara 3000 | Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen | Aqua Acoustic Quality LinQ streamer | Aqua Acoustic Quality Formula xHD Rev. The DAVE DAC does not perform anywhere near where it should. I like Aqua Formula xHD and Totaldac Six. Well build a personalized offer for your existing MSB products that count towards a new DAC or amplifier. Less experience with Dave on DSD, plus Rob claims to no longer decimate. As it stands, the Discrete offers a very good solution should you be a music lover that plays only digital files and you can go straight into a power amp. How r they comparing to the MSB Select 2 and Trinity? I cant help with comparisons of two of these DACs, but I did hear the Tambaqui up against the dCS Bartok and it was a pretty close call, but ultimately the dCS sounded more analogue and more immersive.However, this was at a time when both units were a similar price. have had the opportunity to A/B many more pieces of equipment than any consumer It could sound analytical or hot coupled with bright combination of speaker and amplifier. Still would like to listen to the Soulution 760 DAC, Mola Mola DAC, Trinity DAC, MSB Select DAC, and maybe the Light Harmonic Da Vinci DAC, Gryphon Kalliope DAC, TotalDAC of some kind, Phasure NOS1A DAC, Esoteric Grandioso DAC, TAD DA1000 DAC, Audionet DAC, Chord Dave DAC . Btw, my MSB friend and I used the internal analog preamp for MSB and built-in digital preamp for DAVE. I've had some excellent preamps in my system (Dartzeel, Absolare, Robert Koda, Kondo). dacs and server competed against much more expensive dacs and servers sound wise There is a real sense of spectacle and scale when the MSB is in the system. It was a speaker setup (as in my signature.) I was upgrading it in this order and still could not believe every time it sounded better. I could not so, after 2 years of trying, I bought it. But then we have to apply the law of diminishing returns. 2001-2023 Head-Fi.org. Search: Msb Discrete Dac Vs Chord Dave. Personally we have A/B 76 different digital front ends.. The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. Is it better than the Chord DAVE that I raved about a few years ago? $16K Signature DAC sound? Was it a speaker setup or headphone setup? It's easy! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites. Yeah, you and me both- the look I got wasn't as funny as the one I got from the Sennheiser stand when I asked if they had any HD600 or HD650, instead of all those Momentums and so forth, but still. Yeah, im thinking a post lock-down GTG is in order. Well this is going to set the cat amongst the pigeons for sure. After reading that review, and remembering the reverence APL had back in the day, alongside the Stahl Tek and Trinity dacs that were the heavy hitters 10-15 yrs ago, I was just curious as to whether . subjective to a point and that is why we do blind testing and A/B testing with Theres just a sense that with the MSB in the line that everything is timed correctly and rock solid. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates. Tailored for both the transport and the DACs daily use, our remote brings you closer to the music you love. The AC modules are fully balanced at every stage, have no buffers, IV converters, or transistors in the signal path, and have no active devices used in the conversion process at all. Specifications: Type: Digital to analogue converter with volume control. as far as direct comparison with other dacs the closest Ive done is listening to the Select II at shows and then listening to other top dacs in other systems at shows. I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. The only true way for the end user to know what they prefer is through listening in their own system. That statement makes sense in an analog paradigm. Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. How does it compare? digital front ends. I agree with your statement. in this forum and they are all very good dacs. I have a PS Audio DSD ATM and it is also on the warm side which is good, but I'm thinking I need something more neutral due to my speakers being fairly warm and full bodied in their own right to take my system to the next level. That's the negative to going my route I guess. I did try with just the one power supply and the Discrete remained a very strong performer with the differences being a very slight loss in the sense of separation and definition when listening intently. Click to expand. The Discrete DAC uses two of these modules per unit. Sources: Hiby R6, Fiio x3II, Fiio x5II DACs: Dave, Yggdrasil, Hugo, Hugo TT, U12. Stuart Smith finds out. I hate to repeat myself, but there are no absolutes in audio, only preferences. After a year of listening to various components I'm content. https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-rothschild-70aab85/, Headphones and Personal Audio with Pitch Perfect Service. Even at very low listening levels, it was clear that the MSB was delivering a clean analogue output to the ampand Im aware that sounds a bit vague. digital 149728-117859 MSB select II vs all dacs ? So, essentially, around the back of this DAC we have XLR output modules, dual power inputs (more on this in a moment) the digital input module (XLR, RCA, and two optical), and the USB input. So I saw the DAC lighting up and it looked fully functional, right down displaying the bit rate etc of the file playing, but no music. Additionally, MSBs robust in-house design enables the finest quality playback of PCM and native DSD, while our low impedance circuitry drives your amplification directly without adding coloration or buffering noise. MSB Discrete Dac with one additional basic power supply. Search: Msb Discrete Dac Vs Chord Dave. Auction bid 7 150 25 . DAC Comparison Reference DAC Modules 4x Hybrid DAC Clock The Femto 33 Digital Inputs 4x User Replaceable Input Slots Optical and Coaxial input module Included Analog Outputs Preamp XLR Output Module - 150 Impedance RCA output available with external adapter Analog Inputs XLR Analog Expansion Modules RCA or XLR Input RCA or XLR Output Wavedream only has a couple hours on it, but from the first note it Along with an integrated clock, changing this card allows switching between single-ended and balanced outputs. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. This effect was evident on track after track but didnt feel like it was overly exaggerated. The SQ is amazingly good. Bespoke Audio Ultimate Silver TVC passive preamp, Totaldac xlr version D1-Drivers x2, Eisteddfod 340 & 840 amps, Magico S5 speaker, MSB Select DAC, MSB Select Transport, Nakamichi 700 XLE cassette deck, Taiko Audio Extreme Server, Tripoint Troy Signature NG groundbox, PLiXiR Elite 1500 isolation transformers. connection because it eliminates some parts and gets you closer to a direct Stainless steel buttons arrayed around an elegant volume wheel to optimize performance and response. Sablon Audio King/Prince power cords throughout. I havent heard the Rockna. Chord Dave Black New The Prime DAC With two prime DACs, MSB yields an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you Ps Audio Directstream Dac Vs Auralic Vega Founded in 2004, Games for Change is a 501(c)3 nonprofit that empowers game creators and . When I have done the comparison with other DACs I have had at the same time - Ayre QX5-Twenty, EAR Dac 4, exasound e32 - often the immediate impression is that DAVE/Blu 2 is not quite as good - a bit dryer sounding, not quite as smooth, not as airy or three dimensional And yet, over the longer term, it is deeply satisfying at a musical level in a way that the other DACs are not. Dave gets a "thumbs up" overall from me though. Put simply, your DAC is ready for the future. Lots of time it However, there are also products that manage to straddle both sides of the electric fence (whilst being careful not to electrocute their nether regions) and give us a tremendously enjoyable reproduction of a recording whilst remaining true to the source material. It's pretty funny how everyone gives their personal pet recommendation with the utmost confidence that the buyer will like it. The other issue is preference. Concluding that there is some kind of problem with using an FPGA vs. what MSB does is not technically supportable. I don't understand why Chord DACs have to be so damn ugly! Like a true audiophile with "issues", I'm saying to myself, if at $8300 MQA decoding However, there are two inputs for external PSUs and a little doodad/adapter that allows the use of one external PSU. You are using an out of date browser. And this is what separates the very good from the excellent piece of audio equipment. Copyright Hifi Pig and Hifi Pig Magazine, Big Pig Media LLP. Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream IGNORED Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream . JavaScript is disabled. The lo-res display also makes menu ]set-up fiddly because it doesn't have enough space to display words. I don't have that kind of money. Like others said, I'd try first an MScaler with DAVE. We used PCM (16/44,1 to 24/192) and DSD 64 and 128 for the comparioson. I dont know as that was years ago and I dont have one here to test against. Given your appreciation of the Pacific Microsonics DAC, I hope you'll get a chance to hear the Berkeley in your system as well. But digital, potentially, can change things. MSB Technology [Select DAC II Full Option] Chord [Dave] Myek [Manhattan II] I had A-B test about 2 months. I expected a lot better. However, there is nothing wrong with "taking" recommendations, which help me build a list that I can use to research then find a way to audition my shortlist. Many of these were already in a shootout on Audiogon with the same requirements - has to sound stellar on 16/44.1 tracks: I agree that the DAVE plus Blu 2 is spectacular, but not in a "hi fi" sense. I can only comment on the Emm labs, if u can get a DA2 I think you will be happy "An audiophile is only done when they go to the great brick and mortar store in the sky" Ron Resnick My friend who owns the Diamond DAC IV prefers the MSB. Powered by Invision Community. You could try some of the newer dacs that has gotten good reviews. CH Precision mono dac with clock and 3 power supplies (7 boxes)----its more spendy---$150k, Merging Technologies NADAC w/power supply and clock---much better now with the clock and power supply upgrades than my previous experience.----around $60k. Its a clever thing meaning that their products are repairable and upgradeable for example, you can have a card that is set up for single-ended outputs or balanced XLR outputs (for review we have the balanced version). You'll be shocked by how much you lose by going through a separate preamp. Congratulations on the upgrade and enjoy it in good health. It's embarrassing. I still did not found better audio source. Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers, A healthy approach to understanding measurements, After being asked for the 308th time, Merv lists top 5 headphones, $1000 to the first to design a headamp using discrete components with better measurements than Magni 3+, http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/chord-dave-29757/#post579518, (You must log in or sign up to reply here.). Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. I actually like the simplicity of this and it is very intuitive to use when you get into setting up and menu diving, though diving is over-egging it a bit as the Discrete is a doddle to set upif you do it right, but more on that in a while. What didn't you like about the Dave? 2. We await Phase 2 where all DACs are assessed using upsampled data via your Lumin U1 to establish ranking and the preferred format through each. Mola Mola dac and the Total dac. Equipped with high-visibility and a wide viewing angle, the display is both easy-to-read and stunning, exhibiting our love for intuitive features. But the differences between great DACs is small. As the topic suggests, looking for comparisons on the above Dacs from people who have atleast heard and compared 2 of these dacs. The modular nature of the Discrete and other MSB DACs is very clever and I assume this goes a good way towards giving it such a neutral and detailed sound, where no one part is interfering with what the other is doing. They are excellent pairing. At MSB, we believe excellence is a promise worth keeping. If so I'd recommend the Aqua Formula xHD and the TotalDAC d1-Seven. Both DACs connected directly to power amp using each DACs volume controle. What makes you want to upgrade from DAVE? Since opening our doors in 1986, weve been driven by one goal: to craft an unrivaled listening experience for music lovers across the globe. and as I said earlier there is no "best" when it comes to dacs or I have heard a lot of top DACs at shows or other systems but not in my own. The Pro USB was developed to offer a multi part USB solution that features complete electrical isolation and all the performance of MSBs proprietary Pro ISL input. Well, you may not have heard a lot of high-end DAC's in your system, but the one's you've listed are pretty darned good. I also looked at the MSB Discrete DAC but everything thing was an extra cost option (USB, AES/EBU, power supply, etc.,) and expensive. Its not bombarding you with information, but it is a notably more defined sound with regards to the spatial information and the way that elements sit in the mix a tad more solidity and more of a sense of the stereo image being wider and deeper and with instruments and sounds occupying a definite space of their own. So yes it's a question of being polite, but it's also about acknowledging the limitations inherent in making absolute pronouncements about differences between high performing components. The Discrete DAC, The Premier DAC, The Reference DAC, The Select DAC II, Theater Master. But it need good system matching. Going by the performance of the Mola Mola Makua (pre with dac module) it will be extremely good. I agree price is necessarily indicative of quality or performance. @ricred1, youre right to point that out. In my assessment the Makua offered a more open and spacious sound. It features the very best conversion technology available, using proprietary techniques never seen before, making DAVE the most advanced DAC/preamp amplifier in the world. Sign up for a new account in our community. What is available on models higher up the MSB food chain is the ability to add an analogue module so that you can use the unit as a true preamplifier and DAC. Didn't like it at all. The USB module is completely electrically isolated and is again a standalone module capable of 32 bit#768kHz, MQA decoding and 8X DSD. Others might disagree but these are my findings. Its headphone amplifier is good but no match for higher powered units. As the noise in my system keeps getting lower, the PM2 keeps reaching deeper to find even more musical engagement and purity in standard 16/44 files. Digital: Jay's Audio CDT2 MK2 CD transport, Modified MHDT Labs Balanced Pagoda DAC. There are a lot of people that absolutely love the M-scaler. First I want to say that I fully agree that the hobby is Will do. I have Chord Dave and Blu2 too. MSBs top-level DAC is 121K and there are other brands out there offering very expensive options, but the truth is that the vast majority of people will never feel the need to spend that kind of money (even if they could) to eek out that last-minute bit of detail. IMHO an audio recommendation in a forum is just an advice on what is worth listening and the reason why we think so.